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松墨黄铜

台积电TSM

NYSE 跟踪中 报表币种 TWD · 财年截至 12 月 下次财报 2027-01-14(FY2026Q4)
$398.63USD
2026-11-02 收盘价 · 非实时股价(行情取于 2026-11-03)
市值 2.07 万亿美元 · 表观市盈率(TTM)26.5x · 实际市盈率(TTM)28.2x
266.8252 周487.47
总览/台积电/财报分析/FY2026Q3/逐字稿

FY2026Q3 电话会逐字稿

2026-10-15 来源:谷歌财经 / Quartr 147 段 · 12 位发言人 33 段被报告引用FY2026Q3 季度页 →电话会深度解析 →
译文 147/147 段 · 引用以英文原文为准

发言人

点击某位发言人,只突出显示其发言;再次点击恢复
姓名职位机构段落
Jeff SuDirector of Investor RelationsTaiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company48
C.C. WeiChairman and CEOTaiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company36
Wendell HuangCFOTaiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company11
Operator7
Laura ChenAnalystCiti11
Sunny LinAnalystUBS8
Charlie ChanAnalystMorgan Stanley7
Arthur LaiAnalystMacquarie5
Krish SankarAnalystTD Cowen4
Sahej SinghAnalystStifel Financial4
Gokul HariharanAnalystJPMorgan3
Haas LiuAnalystBank of America3

● 公司管理层 / 主持人 ● 外部分析师

P00100:00
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to TSMC's third quarter 2026 earnings conference call. This is Jeff Su, TSMC's Director of Investor Relations and your host for today. TSMC is hosting our earnings conference call via live audio webcast through the company's website at www.tsmc.com, where you can also download the earnings release materials. If you are joining us through the conference call, your dial-in lines are in listen-only mode. The format for today's event will be as follows. First, TSMC's Senior Vice President, third quarter 2026, followed by our guidance for the fourth quarter 2026. Then Mr. Huang and TSMC's Chairman and CEO, Dr. C.C. Wei, will jointly provide the company's key messages. Then we will open the line for the Q&A session.
大家下午好,欢迎参加台积电 2026 年第三季度财报电话会。我是台积电投资者关系处长 Jeff Su,也是今天的主持人。台积电通过公司网站 www.tsmc.com 进行财报电话会的音频网络直播,您也可以在网站上下载财报发布材料。如果您通过电话会接入,您的线路处于只听模式。今天活动的流程如下:首先,台积电资深副总经理(汇报)2026 年第三季度(营运情况),随后给出 2026 年第四季度的指引。接着,黄先生与台积电董事长兼总裁魏哲家博士将共同阐述公司的重点信息。之后我们将开放问答环节。
P00201:00
As usual, I would like to remind everybody that today's discussions may contain forward-looking statements that are subject to significant risk and uncertainties, which could cause the actual results to differ materially from those contained in the forward-looking statements. Please refer to the safe harbor notice that appears in our press release. Now, I would like to turn the call over to TSMC CFO, Mr. Wendell Huang, for the summary of operations and the current quarter guidance.
按照惯例,我想提醒各位,今天的讨论可能包含前瞻性陈述,这些陈述受重大风险和不确定性影响,可能导致实际结果与前瞻性陈述中的内容存在重大差异。请参阅我们新闻稿中的安全港声明。现在,我把电话交给台积电财务长黄仁昭先生,由他总结营运情况并给出本季度指引。
P00301:27
Wendell HuangCFO
Thank you, Jeff. Good afternoon, everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My presentation will start with financial highlights for the third quarter of 2026. After that, I will provide the guidance for the fourth quarter of 2026. Third quarter revenue increased 17.6% sequentially in TWD, supported by strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies. In USD term, revenue increased 16.2% sequentially to $46.7 billion, above the high end of our third-quarter guidance. Gross margin decreased by 1.3 percentage points sequentially to 66.4%, primarily due to margin dilution from 2-nanometer ramp. Total operating expenses accounted for 7.8% of net revenue. Operating margin was 58.7%. Overall, our third-quarter EPS reached TWD 29.43 and ROE was 45.5%. Now, let's move on to revenue by technology.
谢谢 Jeff。大家下午好,感谢各位今天参加。我的报告将从 2026 年第三季度的财务要点开始,之后给出 2026 年第四季度的指引。第三季度以新台币计营收环比增长 17.6%,受益于市场对我们领先制程技术的强劲需求。以美元计,营收环比增长 16.2% 至 467 亿美元,高于我们第三季度指引的上限。毛利率环比下降 1.3 个百分点至 66.4%,主要由于 2 纳米量产爬坡对毛利率的稀释。营业费用总额占营收净额的 7.8%。营业利润率为 58.7%。总体而言,第三季度每股收益达到 29.43 元新台币,ROE 为 45.5%。现在来看按技术划分的营收。
P00402:47
2-nanometer process technology contributed 8% of wafer revenue in the third quarter, while 3-nanometer, 5-nanometer, and 7-nanometer accounted for 33%, 28%, and 10% respectively. Advanced technologies, defined as 7-nanometer and below, accounted for 79% of wafer revenue. Moving on to revenue contribution by platform. HPC increased 22% quarter-over-quarter to account for 68% of our third-quarter revenue. Smartphone increased 10% to account for 21%. IoT increased 5% to account for 4%. Automotive increased 23% to account for 4%, while DCE declined 12% to account for 1%. Moving on to the balance sheet. We ended the third quarter with cash and marketable securities of TWD 4 trillion, or $126 billion.
第三季度,2 纳米制程技术贡献了晶圆营收的 8%,3 纳米、5 纳米和 7 纳米分别占 33%、28% 和 10%。先进技术(定义为 7 纳米及以下)占晶圆营收的 79%。接下来看按平台划分的营收贡献。HPC 环比增长 22%,占第三季度营收的 68%。智能手机增长 10%,占 21%。IoT 增长 5%,占 4%。汽车增长 23%,占 4%,而 DCE 下降 12%,占 1%。接下来看资产负债表。第三季度末,我们的现金及有价证券为 4 万亿新台币,即 1260 亿美元。
P00504:00
On the liability side, current liabilities increased by TWD 110 billion quarter-over-quarter, mainly due to the increase of TWD 46 billion in current portions of bond payable and bank loans and TWD 26 billion in dividend payable. In terms of financial ratios, accounts receivable turnover days decreased by one day to 28 days. Inventory days decreased by five days to 82 days, primarily due to the increase in wafer shipment. Regarding cash flow and CapEx, during the third quarter, we generated about TWD 920 billion in cash from operations, spent TWD 443 billion in CapEx, and distributed TWD 156 billion for fourth quarter 2025 cash dividends. Overall, our cash balance increased TWD 488 billion to TWD 3.6 trillion at the end of the quarter. In U.S. dollar terms, our third-quarter capital expenditures totaled $13.8 billion. I have finished my financial summary. Now, let's turn to our current quarter guidance.
负债方面,流动负债环比增加 1100 亿新台币,主要由于一年内到期的应付公司债及银行借款增加 460 亿新台币,以及应付股利增加 260 亿新台币。财务比率方面,应收账款周转天数减少 1 天至 28 天。存货天数减少 5 天至 82 天,主要由于晶圆出货量增加。现金流和资本开支方面,第三季度我们经营活动产生约 9200 亿新台币现金,资本开支 4430 亿新台币,并发放了 2025 年第四季度现金股利 1560 亿新台币。总体而言,季度末现金余额增加 4880 亿新台币至 3.6 万亿新台币。以美元计,第三季度资本开支共计 138 亿美元。我的财务摘要到此结束。现在来看本季度指引。
P00605:23
Based on the current business outlook, we expect our fourth quarter revenue to be between $52.3 billion and $54.3 billion, which represents a 14% sequential increase or a 58% year-over-year increase at the midpoint. Based on the exchange rate assumption of one U.S. dollar to TWD 31.8, gross margin is expected to be between 65% and 67%, operating margin between 56.5% and 58.5%. This concludes my financial presentation. Now, let me turn to our key messages. I will start by talking about our third quarter 2026 and fourth quarter of 2026 profitability. Compared to second quarter, our third quarter gross margin decreased by 130 basis points sequentially to 66.4%, primarily due to the margin dilution from the initial ramp-up of our 2 nanometer technology.
基于当前的业务展望,我们预计第四季度营收在 523 亿美元至 543 亿美元之间,以中值计环比增长 14%,同比增长 58%。基于 1 美元兑 31.8 元新台币的汇率假设,毛利率预计在 65% 至 67% 之间,营业利润率在 56.5% 至 58.5% 之间。我的财务报告到此结束。现在来谈我们的重点信息。我先谈 2026 年第三季度和 2026 年第四季度的获利能力。与第二季度相比,第三季度毛利率环比下降 130 个基点至 66.4%,主要由于 2 纳米技术初期爬坡带来的毛利率稀释。
P00706:39
We have just guided our fourth quarter gross margin to decrease by 40 basis points to 66% at the midpoint, primarily due to the continued margin dilution from the steep ramp-up of our 2 nanometer technology, as well as dilution from overseas fabs. These impacts are expected to be partially offset by cost improvement efforts, including productivity gains and across node capacity optimization. While the cost of overseas fabs remain higher, thanks to the company's overall larger scale and cost improvement efforts, we now expect the gross margin dilution from the ramp-up of our overseas fabs to be closer to 2% more effort to support the strong structural demand from our customers. More fabs will be ramping up in the U.S. Thus, we expect the dilution from our overseas fabs to widen to 3%-4% in the next few years.
我们刚刚给出的第四季度毛利率指引中值为 66%,下降 40 个基点,主要由于 2 纳米技术陡峭爬坡带来的持续毛利率稀释,以及海外晶圆厂的稀释。这些影响预计将被成本改善措施部分抵消,包括生产力提升和跨节点产能优化。虽然海外晶圆厂的成本仍然较高,但得益于公司整体更大的规模和成本改善努力,我们现在预计海外晶圆厂爬坡带来的毛利率稀释将更接近 2%(注:此处转录不完整,原文语句不连贯)更多努力来支持客户强劲的结构性需求。更多晶圆厂将在美国爬坡。因此,我们预计未来几年海外晶圆厂的稀释将扩大至 3%-4%。
P00807:45
We will leverage our increasing size in Arizona and work on our operations to improve the cost structure. We will also continue to work closely with our customers and suppliers to manage the impact. Overall, with our fundamental competitive advantages of manufacturing technology leadership and large-scale production base, we are confident that TSMC continues to be the most cost-efficient manufacturer in every region that we operate. Next, let me make some comments on our 2026 capital budget. At TSMC, a higher level of capital expenditures is always correlated with higher growth opportunities in the following years. Given the continued robust multi-year demand from our customers, including the emerging agentic AI market, we reiterate our full year 2026 capital budget to be between $60 billion and $64 billion.
我们将利用在亚利桑那州不断扩大的规模,并改进营运以改善成本结构。我们也将继续与客户和供应商密切合作来管理这一影响。总体而言,凭借制造技术领先和大规模生产基地这些根本性竞争优势,我们有信心台积电在我们营运的每一个地区都将继续是成本效率最高的制造商。接下来,我想谈谈 2026 年的资本预算。在台积电,较高的资本开支水平总是与随后几年更高的增长机会相关。鉴于客户持续强劲的多年期需求,包括新兴的智能体 AI 市场,我们重申 2026 年全年资本预算在 600 亿美元至 640 亿美元之间。
P00908:56
We continue to expect our CapEx investment from 2026 to 2028 to be even more significantly higher than the past three years as we continue to invest heavily to support our customers' growth. Additionally, while the tool supply is tight, we always collaborate closely with our tool suppliers well in advance to prepare the capacity, just like our customers collaborate with us well in advance to plan our capacity. Even as we invest for the future growth with this level of CapEx spending in the next few years, we remain committed to delivering profitable growth to our shareholders. We also remain committed to a sustainable and steadily increasing cash dividend per share on both an annual and quarterly basis. Now, let me turn the microphone over to C.C.
我们继续预计 2026 年至 2028 年的资本开支将比过去三年显著更高,因为我们持续大力投资以支持客户的增长。此外,虽然设备供应紧张,但我们一向提前与设备供应商密切合作准备产能,就像我们的客户提前与我们密切合作规划产能一样。即使在未来几年以这样的资本开支水平为未来增长投资,我们仍致力于为股东带来有获利的增长。我们也仍致力于实现可持续且稳定增加的每股现金股利,无论按年度还是按季度计。现在我把麦克风交给 C.C.。
P01009:58
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Thank you, Wendell. Good afternoon, everyone. First, let me start with our near-term demand outlook. We concluded our third quarter with a revenue of $46.7 billion, higher than our guidance in U.S. dollar terms, driven by strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies. Moving into fourth quarter 2026, we expect our business to be supported by continued strong demand for our leading-edge process technologies, including the steep ramp-up of our 2 nanometer technology. Looking ahead, we continue to observe consumer and price-sensitive end market segment are being challenged due to the impact of rising component prices and macroeconomic uncertainties. As such, we are being prudent in our business planning going into 2027 while focusing on the fundamentals of our business to further strengthen our competitive position.
谢谢 Wendell。大家下午好。首先,我从近期需求展望谈起。第三季度我们实现营收 467 亿美元,以美元计高于我们的指引,主要受益于市场对我们领先制程技术的强劲需求。进入 2026 年第四季度,我们预计业务将继续受到领先制程技术强劲需求的支撑,包括我们 2 纳米技术的陡峭爬坡。展望未来,我们继续观察到消费类和价格敏感的终端市场受到零部件价格上涨和宏观经济不确定性的冲击。因此,我们在进入 2027 年的业务规划上保持审慎,同时专注于业务基本面,以进一步加强我们的竞争地位。
P01111:11
Having said that, demand for our leading-edge technologies continue to be extremely robust, supported by our strong technology differentiation and broader customer base. Therefore, we now expect our full year 2026 revenue growth to be around 44% year-over-year in U.S. dollar term. Next, let me talk about the AI-related demand outlook. The AI market continues to be very strong. Recent developments are very positive to AI's long-term demand outlook. We observe increasing AI demand fueled by the rising adoption of agentic AI as we transition from chatbot to AI assistance. In addition, we are observing great adoption of open source AI models. This will drive greater efficiency and help lower the barrier to future AI usage, and result in more and more demand for leading-edge silicon. Thus, AI-related demand is being supported by strong underlying demand for AI accelerators.
话虽如此,凭借我们强大的技术差异化和更广泛的客户基础,市场对我们领先技术的需求依然极其强劲。因此,我们现在预计 2026 年全年营收以美元计同比增长约 44%。接下来谈 AI 相关的需求展望。AI 市场依然非常强劲。近期的发展对 AI 的长期需求展望非常有利。随着从聊天机器人向 AI 助手过渡,我们观察到智能体 AI 采用率上升推动 AI 需求不断增加。此外,我们观察到开源 AI 模型被大量采用。这将推动效率提升,帮助降低未来使用 AI 的门槛,并带来对领先硅芯片越来越多的需求。因此,AI 相关需求正受到 AI 加速器强劲底层需求的支撑。
P01212:34
In addition, the emergence of agentic AI CPUs and the continued demand for networking chips are driving further silicon demand. Therefore, semiconductor will remain essential in the AI mega trend. The value of semiconductors in the global supply chain is set to continue to increase in our view. This will create more value opportunities for our customers to capture and more value opportunities for TSMC as well. No matter which approach is taken, you will require use of the most advanced semiconductor process technology. With our technology leadership, manufacturing excellence, global capacity expansion, and customer trust, we are well-positioned to capture the full multi-year structural AI-related demand. Therefore, all the AI players are working with TSMC. Next, let me talk about TSMC's capacity expansion strategy. As a foundry, our first responsibility is to provide our customer with the best technologies and effective capacity support to unleash their innovations.
此外,智能体 AI CPU 的出现以及对网络芯片的持续需求,正在进一步推动硅芯片需求。因此,半导体在 AI 大趋势中仍将不可或缺。我们认为,半导体在全球供应链中的价值将持续提升。这将为我们的客户创造更多价值机会,也为台积电创造更多价值机会。无论采取哪种路线,都需要使用最先进的半导体制程技术。凭借我们的技术领先、卓越制造、全球产能扩张和客户信任,我们完全有能力把握多年期结构性 AI 相关需求的全部机会。因此,所有 AI 厂商都在与台积电合作。接下来谈台积电的产能扩张策略。作为晶圆代工厂,我们的首要责任是为客户提供最好的技术和有效的产能支持,以释放他们的创新。
P01314:05
To address the structured increase in the long-term semiconductor market demand profile, TSMC collaborate closely with our customers, yet our customer's customer to plan for our capacity. In addition, we are now going one step further and sending our own teams of people to check on the data center build-out progress and power supply situation in the U.S. The feedback is so far so good, and the CSPs has been well-prepared. Internally, TSMC employed a disciplined capacity planning system to assess the market demand from both a top-down and bottom-up approach. This is a continuous and ongoing process. Given the fundamental complexity of leading-edge technologies and the design in and lead time involved, we already have a very good idea of customers' multi-year product roadmap and production plans. Thus, we continue to hold strong conviction in the AI mega trend.
为应对长期半导体市场需求结构性的增加,台积电与我们的客户以及客户的客户密切合作来规划产能。此外,我们现在更进一步,派出自己的团队去核查美国数据中心的建设进度和电力供应情况。到目前为止反馈都很好,云服务提供商(CSP)都已做好充分准备。在内部,台积电采用一套严谨的产能规划体系,从自上而下和自下而上两个角度评估市场需求。这是一个持续进行的过程。鉴于领先技术的根本复杂性以及所涉及的设计导入和前置时间,我们已经非常清楚客户的多年期产品路线图和生产计划。因此,我们继续对 AI 大趋势抱有坚定信心。
P01415:24
We are moving full speed ahead to increase our capacity to meet our assessed demand, and stepping up our CapEx investment to support our customers' future growth. TSMC is expanding at unprecedented pace with a nearly 20 fabs worldwide in progress. We are building 13 leading-edge and advanced packaging fab in Taiwan over the next several years, and another 5 to 6 fabs overseas. Our new node, N2, has already entered high-volume manufacturing in the fourth quarter of 2025 with good yield. N2 is ramping successfully in multiple phases at both Hsinchu and Kaohsiung site. We expect our N2 family technologies annual capacity to more than double in 2027, supported by strong demand from both smartphone and HPC AI applications. We are also leveraging our manufacturing excellence to generate more N2 wafer output, further increasing our capacity support to customers.
我们正全速推进产能扩张以满足我们评估的需求,并加大资本开支投资以支持客户未来的增长。台积电正以前所未有的速度扩张,全球有近 20 座晶圆厂正在推进。未来几年我们将在台湾兴建 13 座领先制程和先进封装厂,另在海外兴建 5 至 6 座厂。我们的新节点 N2 已于 2025 年第四季度以良好的良率进入大规模量产。N2 正在新竹和高雄两个厂区分多期顺利爬坡。我们预计 2027 年 N2 家族技术的年产能将增长一倍以上,受智能手机和 HPC AI 应用强劲需求的支撑。我们也在发挥卓越制造能力来生产更多 N2 晶圆,进一步提升对客户的产能支持。
P01516:45
In addition, we have already begun preparing the capacity for our A14 technology. Risk production is well on track for 2027, and volume production will start in 2028. Thus, TSMC's semiconductor technologies and manufacturing will continue to play a pivotal role in supporting the global semiconductor industry while unleashing our customers' innovation. Now, let me talk about TSMC's global N3 capacity expansion update. As we said before, historically, we do not add additional capacity to a node once it reaches its targeted capacity. However, based on our assessment, we are executing well on our global capacity plan to add 3 new fabs to support the robust multi-year pipeline or demand for 3 nanometer technologies. In Taiwan, volume production for our new 3 nanometer fab in Tainan Science Park is well on track to begin the first half of 2027.
此外,我们已经开始为 A14 技术准备产能。风险试产正按计划于 2027 年顺利推进,量产将于 2028 年开始。因此,台积电的半导体技术和制造将继续在支持全球半导体产业、释放客户创新方面发挥关键作用。现在谈谈台积电全球 N3 产能扩张的最新情况。正如我们之前所说,历史上,一个节点达到目标产能后我们就不再为其增加产能。然而,基于我们的评估,我们正顺利执行全球产能计划,新增 3 座晶圆厂,以支持对 3 纳米技术强劲的多年期需求。在台湾,我们位于台南科学园区的新 3 纳米厂正按计划顺利推进,将于 2027 年上半年开始量产。
P01618:08
In addition, driven by the strong demand from our customer, we have decided to add one additional 3 nanometer fab in Tainan. Volume production is scheduled for the first half of 2028. In Arizona, we have completed the construction of our second fab and are in the process of tool moving and installation. Volume production will begin in third quarter 2027, slightly ahead of our previous schedule. In Japan, we are progressing well to our plan to utilize 3 nanometer in our second fab, and volume production is scheduled in 2028. In addition to all the new fabs, we continue to convert 5-nanometer tool to support 3-nanometer capacity in Taiwan. We are also leveraging our manufacturing excellence to greater productivity across our fab in all locations.
此外,在客户强劲需求的推动下,我们已决定在台南再增加 1 座 3 纳米厂,计划于 2028 年上半年量产。在亚利桑那州,我们已完成第二座厂的建设,正在进行设备搬入与安装。量产将于 2027 年第三季度开始,略早于我们先前的时间表。在日本,我们在第二座厂采用 3 纳米的计划进展顺利,计划于 2028 年量产。除了所有这些新厂,我们还在台湾持续将 5 纳米设备转换为支持 3 纳米产能。我们也在发挥卓越制造能力,提升所有厂区的生产力。
P01719:16
To generate more wafer output, we are also focusing on capacity optimization across nodes, which including flexible capacity support among N7, N5, and N3 node. Thus, we are using multiple levers to do everything we can, whenever we can, as fast as we can, to maximize the support to our customers. We have no intention to leave food on the table for others, and we want to capture every piece of business possible. This concluding our key message, and thank you for your attention.
为了生产更多晶圆,我们也在专注于跨节点产能优化,包括在 N7、N5 和 N3 节点之间灵活调配产能。因此,我们正在运用多种手段,在任何时候、以最快的速度做一切能做的事,最大限度地支持客户。我们没有任何意愿把桌上的食物留给别人,我们要争取每一份可能的业务。我的重点信息到此结束,感谢各位的关注。
P01820:02
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Thank you, C.C. This concludes our prepared statements. Before we begin the question and answer session, I would like to remind everybody to please limit your questions to two at a time to allow as many participants as possible the opportunity to ask their questions. Should you wish to raise your question in Chinese, I will translate it to English before our management answers your question. For those of you on the call, if you would like to ask a question, please press the star then one on your telephone keypad now. If at any time you'd like to remove yourself from the questioning queue, please press star two. Now, let's begin the Q&A session. Operator, can we proceed with the first caller on the line, please?
谢谢 C.C.。我们的准备发言到此结束。在开始问答环节之前,我想提醒各位,每次提问请限制在 2 个问题以内,以便让尽可能多的参与者有机会提问。如果您希望用中文提问,我会在管理层回答前将其翻译成英文。电话会上的各位,如果您想提问,请现在在电话键盘上按星号键再按 1。如果您想随时退出提问队列,请按星号键再按 2。现在开始问答环节。主持人,可以请第一位提问者开始吗?
问答环节
P01920:49
Operator
Yes. First one, Laura Chen, Citi. Go ahead, please.
好的。第一位,花旗的 Laura Chen。请讲。
P02020:55
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Thank you very much. Good afternoon, and appreciate C.C. for sharing with us the TSMC capacity expansion strategy. May I follow up more on that? Given the increasing aggressive AI semiconductor demand, how does TSMC now see the AI revenue CAGR growth, and how does TSMC reconcile customer the capacity requirement with some of the potential concern on the data center power availability, and also maybe funding recently and other critical components such as the HBM, APS, advanced packaging, and also in the networking side, we see the tightness of laser as well. If these kind of trends create a mismatch between semiconductor supply and also actual AI development, how would TSMC adjust your capa- minimize the potential overbuilding in the supply chain? Thank you. That's my first question.
非常感谢。下午好,感谢 C.C. 与我们分享台积电的产能扩张策略。我可以就此再追问一下吗?鉴于 AI 半导体需求日益激增,台积电现在如何看待 AI 营收的复合增长率?台积电如何协调客户的产能需求与一些潜在担忧——数据中心电力供应、近期的融资问题,以及其他关键零部件如 HBM、APS、先进封装,还有网络方面我们也看到激光器的紧张?如果这类趋势造成半导体供给与实际 AI 发展之间的错配,台积电将如何调整你们的产——尽量减少供应链潜在的过度建设?谢谢。这是我的第一个问题。
P02121:59
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay, Laura. Laura has a very involved first question. I think she is asking how do we see the AI demand outlook. The AI demand, as C.C. said, seems to be very strong, but she is worried or concerned, how do we reconcile the strong demand of chips, AI chips, versus risk related to whether it be power supply, I think also different bottlenecks within the supply chain, et cetera. How do we make our assessment of what is the appropriate CapEx and capacity we need to prepare? Is that correct, Laura?
好的,Laura。Laura 的第一个问题很复杂。我想她问的是我们如何看待 AI 需求展望。正如 C.C. 所说,AI 需求似乎非常强劲,但她担心的是,我们如何协调对芯片、AI 芯片的强劲需求,与电力供应以及供应链中各种瓶颈等相关风险?我们如何评估需要准备的合适资本开支和产能?是这样吗,Laura?
P02222:38
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Yes. Thank you.
是的。谢谢。
P02322:40
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
That is a long, long question. Laura, let me share with you. We have a very sophisticated capacity planning process, and we also have a very disciplined on our consideration. Let me share with you, we put every possibility we can, talking about the CSPs, CapEx, data center build-out, financial, power supply, and also other component supply, et cetera, into our consideration. We make our own judgment, and then based on our assessment the demand, we still think the demand is higher than the supply, and we are working very hard to narrow the gap. Did I answer your question, Laura?
这是一个很长很长的问题。Laura,我来和你分享一下。我们有一套非常完善的产能规划流程,我们的考量也非常严谨。我告诉你,我们把所有能想到的可能性都纳入考量,包括云服务提供商的资本开支、数据中心建设、融资、电力供应以及其他零部件供应等。我们做出自己的判断,而基于我们对需求的评估,我们仍然认为需求高于供给,我们正在非常努力地缩小这个缺口。我回答了你的问题吗,Laura?
P02423:51
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Sure. Thank you. Thank you very much. So far from our comprehensive study of the supply chains, we are still quite positive on the demand in the longer term run. In that case, can you also give us more color about that? Any update on your AI CAGR growth? I recall previously we talking about like a high 50s%.
当然。谢谢。非常感谢。到目前为止,从我们对供应链的全面研究来看,我们对长期需求仍然相当乐观。既然如此,能否再多谈谈这方面?AI 复合增长率有没有更新?我记得之前我们谈到的是 50% 区间的高段。
P02524:17
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
We-
我们——
P02624:18
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Sorry. Sorry. Yeah. Part of Laura's question is then based on our assessment, we had previously guided our AI accelerator CAGR, which is a narrow definition to
抱歉,抱歉。是的。Laura 问题的一部分是,基于我们的评估,我们先前给出的 AI 加速器复合增长率指引(这是一个狭义定义)为
P02724:30
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Correct
对
P02824:30
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
grow mid to high 50s percentage from 2024 to 2029. Laura wants to know, do we have any update to that number today?
从 2024 年到 2029 年增长 50% 区间的中高段。Laura 想知道我们今天对这个数字有没有更新?
P02924:40
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Laura, all I can say right now is the demand is extremely robust. We did not see any sign of slowdown. Whether it is a high 50 CAGR, it does not matter. It probably will be higher.
Laura,我现在能说的只有:需求极其强劲。我们没有看到任何放缓的迹象。是不是 50% 区间高段的复合增长率并不重要,很可能会更高。
P03024:59
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Sure. Okay. Yes.
当然。好的。是的。
P03125:02
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Okay.
好的。
P03225:02
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Thank you very much. My second question is also about, given the very strong demand, the CapEx cycles, we see that definitely this round will be much higher than before. TSMC also announced that earlier, you will adapt a High NA EUV around 2030. Should we think about that will be further improve the productivities, thus will be more meaningful for further accelerating revenue growth in the longer term? Also given that the CapEx intensity are also getting much higher, so how should we think about the pricing power and also the long-term gross margin and the capital efficiency return?
非常感谢。我的第二个问题也是关于:在需求非常强劲的情况下,资本开支周期——我们看到这一轮肯定会比以前高得多。台积电之前也宣布将在 2030 年前后采用 High NA EUV。我们是否应该认为这将进一步提升生产力,从而对长期进一步加速营收增长更有意义?另外,鉴于资本开支强度也在大幅提高,我们应该如何看待定价能力、长期毛利率以及资本效率回报?
P03325:53
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Okay.
好的。
P03425:53
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
That is my question. Thank you.
这就是我的问题。谢谢。
P03525:53
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations已校正
That is actually two questions, but okay. We will just very quickly, so Laura Chen's-
这其实是两个问题,不过没关系。我们快速说一下,那么 Laura Chen 的——
P03625:59
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Sure
好的
P03725:59
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations已校正
Part of it is on, with the strong demand on our CapEx cycle, how do we view the adoption of High NA, which we said we will in 2030, and then her question is on profitability, long-term outlook.
其中一部分是,在强劲需求推动的资本开支周期中,我们如何看待采用 High NA(我们说过将在 2030 年采用),另一部分是关于盈利能力的长期展望。
P03826:14
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Yeah. Thank you.
是的。谢谢。
P03926:16
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Let me answer that question. Yes, for the long-term productivity, we continue to improve it, and High NA definitely is a very good tool. So far, I think our plan is to use it in 2030. Again, our CapEx will be much higher than today. You are talking about the gross margin or the profitability can be increased or not. Let me say that, there is no ceiling for TSMC's profitability, but a dramatic increase will not happen overnight either. Our philosophy or our strategy always are working with our customer, and we want to make them be successful, and then we can gain our value. Yeah.
我来回答这个问题。是的,对于长期生产力,我们会持续改善,High NA 绝对是很好的设备。目前我认为我们的计划是在 2030 年使用它。同样,我们的资本开支会比今天高得多。你问的是毛利率或盈利能力能否提升。我要说的是,台积电的盈利能力没有天花板,但大幅提升也不会一夜之间发生。我们的理念或策略始终是与客户合作,帮助他们成功,然后我们才能获得我们的价值。是的。
P04027:20
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
Sure. Thank you. Very helpful. Appreciate it.
好的。谢谢。非常有帮助。感谢。
P04127:24
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Okay.
好的。
P04227:24
Laura ChenAnalyst, Citi
And congrats for the great result. Thank you.
恭喜取得了出色的业绩。谢谢。
P04327:26
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Thank you.
谢谢。
P04427:26
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
谢谢。主持人,可以请下一位参与者吗?
P04527:31
Operator
Next one, Gokul Hariharan, J.P. Morgan. Go ahead, please.
下一位,摩根大通的 Gokul Hariharan。请讲。
P04627:36
Gokul HariharanAnalyst, JPMorgan
Hi, good afternoon, C.C., Wendell, and Jeff. My first question, again, on capacity addition. Looks like the shortage. Just wanted to hear, C.C., your view on this. I think it's been quite some time since we have seen TSMC add capacity at more than 10% every year. I think if you look at your annual report, I think it'd be about 10 years that you've added capacity of more than 10%. Given this accelerated build-out, can we start getting wafer capacity growth closer to 10% or even higher than 10% in the next couple of years? Any comment on what is your planned wafer capacity growth in the next couple of years? That's my first question.
嗨,C.C.、Wendell 和 Jeff,下午好。我的第一个问题还是关于产能增加。看起来是短缺状态。C.C.,只是想听听你对此的看法。我想我们已经很长时间没有看到台积电每年增加超过 10% 的产能了。如果看你们的年报,我想大约有 10 年你们没有增加超过 10% 的产能了。鉴于这次加速扩建,未来几年晶圆产能增长能否开始接近 10% 甚至高于 10%?对于未来几年计划的晶圆产能增长有什么评论吗?这是我的第一个问题。
P04728:23
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Gokul's first question is regarding the capacity addition and the demand. His question first is, the tightness in the wafer supply, do we think that will be even more or greater in 2027 than 2026? Along with that, how do we see our overall capacity addition? Although you say 10%, I think every year we disclose in the annual report, it has been about mid to high single digit, and sometimes even lower. Anyway, regardless, those are the two questions. First, on just the demand outlook and then the supply. Will next year be even more tight than this year?
好的。Gokul 的第一个问题是关于产能增加和需求。他的问题首先是,晶圆供应的紧张程度,我们认为 2027 年会比 2026 年更紧张吗?与此相关,我们如何看待整体产能增加?虽然你说的是 10%,但我想我们每年在年报中披露的大约是个位数的中高段,有时甚至更低。不管怎样,这是两个问题。首先是需求展望,然后是供给。明年会比今年更紧张吗?
P04829:11
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
I just mentioned the demand is extremely robust and getting higher and higher. Of course, we have our own judgment, and we look at it every angle. As I said, we talk to customer, customers are customer, and then we do our own one more step to check the data center build-out. All the result we put into our judgment and our assessment, the result is, the demand is very, very high. The gap between demand and supply are still quite big, and that is why we put all our strengths to increase the capacity, as I just mentioned. Whether it is bigger or the gap become bigger or the gap become narrow, we are working very hard. I cannot answer this question right now because of my customer continue to increase their demand.
我刚才提到,需求极其强劲,而且越来越高。当然,我们有自己的判断,我们从各个角度去看。正如我所说,我们与客户、客户的客户交谈,然后我们自己还更进一步去核查数据中心建设。我们把所有结果纳入判断和评估,结论是,需求非常非常高。供需缺口仍然相当大,这就是为什么我们全力以赴扩充产能,正如我刚才所说。无论缺口是变大还是变小,我们都在非常努力。我现在无法回答这个问题,因为我的客户还在不断增加他们的需求。
P04930:21
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Gokul, I think it is a bit too early to talk about capacity increase percentage going forward. Let me just remind you that the increase every year, even though the number may be small, but the increase in advanced nodes are really the main driver for the capacity increase. Okay?
好的。Gokul,我想现在谈未来产能增长的百分比还为时过早。我只是提醒你,每年的增幅即使数字可能不大,但先进节点的增加才是产能增长的主要驱动力。可以吗?
P05030:52
Gokul HariharanAnalyst, JPMorgan
Fair enough. Okay. Thank you. Secondly, I think you alluded to more aggressive overseas expansion plans in the U.S. especially, and I think recently there has been a lot of discussion with potentially a new fab cluster in Texas, as well as, I think one of your customers also talked about discussions with TSMC as well. C.C., could you talk a little bit about your overseas plan, like the more accelerated kind of capacity build-out? Also any engagement with SpaceX or Tesla, given your customer did call you out last week in terms of some engagements here. What are the broad contours of this kind of engagement likely to be? Is it similar to what you have done with some of the customers in Japan and ESMC as well?
很公平。好的。谢谢。第二,我想你们提到了更积极的海外扩张计划,尤其是在美国;最近有很多关于可能在德州建设新晶圆厂集群的讨论,而且我想你们的一位客户也谈到了与台积电的讨论。C.C.,能否谈谈你们的海外计划,比如更加速的产能扩建?另外,与 SpaceX 或 Tesla 有没有合作?你们的客户上周确实点名提到了这方面的一些接触。这类合作的大致轮廓可能是怎样的?是否类似你们与日本的一些客户以及 ESMC 的合作方式?
P05131:50
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Thank you, Gokul. Gokul's second question, he notes that C.C. said we are expanding at an unprecedented place, doing everything we can, as fast as we can to increase the capacity. His question is particularly to the U.S., what is the status or update? There have been reports that we are looking to expand in Texas. There have been reports that one of our customers, we are engaging in discussions. He wants to know what kind of framework or parameters of any cooperation may be, or any comment on either of those two things.
好的。谢谢 Gokul。Gokul 的第二个问题,他注意到 C.C. 说我们正以前所未有的速度扩张,尽一切可能、以最快速度增加产能。他的问题尤其针对美国,现状或最新进展如何?有报道称我们正考虑在德州扩张,也有报道称我们正与一位客户进行讨论。他想知道任何合作可能采取什么样的框架或参数,或对这两件事有什么评论。
P05232:24
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Okay. Gokul, we work very hard to expand our capacity in U.S. This is necessary because of all our customer, most of our large customer in U.S., and they request that TSMC to increase the capacity. Also U.S. government are very helpful. That is a place we want to expand. Recently, we did expand our capacities consideration to see outside Arizona whether we can get another chance to expand our capacity. Texas is one. We send the teams to Texas to do all the evaluation. We also talk to one of our customer who try to build a fab, Terafab, let me be more specific. We are discussing with them, see whether that we can be utilizing that actual capacity also. We are still in discussion. If we have any solid conclusion, we will share with you.
好的。Gokul,我们正在非常努力地扩大在美国的产能。这是必要的,因为我们的客户——我们大多数大客户都在美国,他们要求台积电增加产能。美国政府也非常支持。那是我们想要扩张的地方。最近,我们确实把产能考量扩大到亚利桑那州以外,看看是否还有其他扩充产能的机会。德州就是其中之一。我们派了团队到德州进行全面评估。我们也在与一位试图建厂的客户交谈——说得更具体一些,就是 Terafab。我们正与他们讨论,看看我们是否也能利用那部分实际产能。我们仍在讨论中。如果有任何确定的结论,我们会与大家分享。
P05333:48
But today, that is it, yes, from Arizona to Texas, yes.
但就今天而言,就是这些,是的,从亚利桑那州到德州,是的。
P05433:57
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay.
好的。
P05533:58
Gokul HariharanAnalyst, JPMorgan
But all these are going to be TSMC-run fabs, right? I think you are not becoming part of the Terafab project or anything like that. Could you just help us understand what are the principles that you are using here? Is it a similar principle that you use for JASM or ESMC?
但这些都将是由台积电运营的厂,对吗?我想你们不会成为 Terafab 项目或类似项目的一部分。能否帮我们理解一下你们在这里采用的原则?是否与 JASM 或 ESMC 采用的原则类似?
P05634:17
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay, so Gokul's question is not in particular to the potential cooperation with this customer. Would it be TSMC's own? What are the principles that we have, if anything?
好的,所以 Gokul 的问题并不特指与这位客户的潜在合作。将是台积电自己的吗?我们有什么原则(如果有的话)?
P05734:30
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
We are still in discussion, let me say that. It's not either way, it would be possible, but the fab has to be run by TSMC.
我们仍在讨论中,我只能这么说。两种方式都不是不可能,但厂必须由台积电运营。
P05834:45
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Thank you. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
谢谢。主持人,可以请下一位参与者吗?
P05934:51
Operator
Yes. Next one, Krish Sankar, TD Cowen. Go ahead, please.
好的。下一位,TD Cowen 的 Krish Sankar。请讲。
P06034:57
Krish SankarAnalyst, TD Cowen
Yeah, hi. Thanks for taking my question. I have two of them. First one, C.C., some customers talk about a secondary wafer market where one customer passes their wafer allocation to another. Is this a very small portion of the business? Is it customer specific, or do you see that as an emerging trend where customers whose demand is weak pass some of their allocation to stronger customers? Then I had a quick follow-up.
嗨,感谢回答我的问题。我有 2 个问题。第一个,C.C.,一些客户谈到了晶圆二级市场,即一个客户将其晶圆配额转给另一个客户。这是业务中很小的一部分吗?是个别客户的情况,还是你认为这是一种新兴趋势——需求疲弱的客户将部分配额转给需求更强的客户?之后我还有一个简短的追问。
P06135:21
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
All right, Krish. Thank you. Krish's first question is asking, some of our customers are talking about a resell or a secondary wafer market where they can pass their allocation on. Is this a very small portion of our business, or is this more of a trend for us to do, and is this something that we allow our customers to do?
好的,Krish。谢谢。Krish 的第一个问题是,我们的一些客户谈到晶圆转售或二级市场,可以转让他们的配额。这是我们业务中很小的一部分,还是我们会这样做的一种趋势?这是我们允许客户做的事吗?
P06235:44
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, let me answer that. To say whether this is a new strategy, new methodology, the answer is no. The principle of TSMC is we do not allow our customer to sublet or auction off the capacity. But in certain cases, customer can collaborate through a mask licensing agreement, but this is not our common practice. The amount is very, very small. Krish, did I answer your question?
我来回答。要说这是不是一种新策略、新方法,答案是否定的。台积电的原则是,我们不允许客户转租或拍卖产能。但在某些情况下,客户可以通过光罩授权协议进行合作,但这不是我们的常规做法。金额非常非常小。Krish,我回答了你的问题吗?
P06336:23
Krish SankarAnalyst, TD Cowen
Yes, you did. Thank you very much for that. Then a quick follow-up. You did touch upon it, the High NA agreement with ASML from 2030 onwards. I'm just curious, historically, TSMC was more ahead of the curve with the EUV adoption. It looks like by the time you adopt High NA EUV, it would be 2030, 2031, but some of your competitors would already been using it by then. Do you see that as a disadvantage, or you're not worried about competition getting ahead with High NA EUV? Thank you.
是的,回答了。非常感谢。接着是一个简短的追问。你确实提到了与 ASML 从 2030 年起的 High NA 协议。我只是好奇,历史上台积电在采用 EUV 方面更为领先。看起来等到你们采用 High NA EUV 时将是 2030 年、2031 年,而你们的一些竞争对手到那时可能已经在使用它了。你认为这是一种劣势吗?还是你并不担心竞争对手在 High NA EUV 上领先?谢谢。
P06436:53
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay, so Krish's second question is looking at High NA. He notes some of our competitors are both using, already adopted, or will adopt High NA earlier than TSMC. His question, does this put us at a competitive disadvantage or risk compared to our competitors in terms of technology leadership?
好的,Krish 的第二个问题是关于 High NA。他注意到我们的一些竞争对手正在使用、已经采用或将比台积电更早采用 High NA。他的问题是,在技术领先方面,这是否会让我们相对竞争对手处于竞争劣势或面临风险?
P06537:18
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Krish, let me answer that. We always evaluate a new tool, and if we want to put into the mass production, it got to be the best technology with a very reasonable cost, and most important is the best maturity. Okay? We say in 2030 we will start to use it because we also think at that time, High NA will be mature, and we are also working very closely with our ASML to establish a 12-inch photomask by 2031. At that time, we think that High NA's cost will be reasonable and for TSMC to make it into the mass production. This is a very good tool, let me emphasize that. In the smaller geometry, it definitely has some advantage. Whether that our technology, because we are using it later than our competitor, so disadvantage to TSMC?
Krish,我来回答。我们一直在评估新设备,如果要把它投入量产,它必须是最好的技术、成本非常合理,最重要的是成熟度最好。可以吗?我们说 2030 年开始使用,是因为我们也认为到那时 High NA 会成熟,而且我们也在与 ASML 非常密切地合作,在 2031 年前建立 12 英寸光罩。到那时,我们认为 High NA 的成本将是合理的,台积电可以将其投入量产。我要强调,这是一个非常好的设备。在更小的几何尺寸上,它肯定有一些优势。至于我们的技术是否因为比竞争对手更晚使用它而对台积电不利?
P06638:33
No, because we have confidence that we are still the best company to offer the most advanced technology to our customers.
不会,因为我们有信心,我们仍然是为客户提供最先进技术的最佳公司。
P06738:46
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Krish, does that answer your question?
Krish,这回答了你的问题吗?
P06838:47
Krish SankarAnalyst, TD Cowen
Thank you very much.
非常感谢。
P06938:48
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Yeah. Okay.
是的。好的。
P07038:49
Krish SankarAnalyst, TD Cowen
Yes. Thank you very much, Krish. Thank you, Jeff.
是的。非常感谢,Krish。谢谢 Jeff。
P07138:51
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Operator, can we move on to the next participant, please?
好的。主持人,可以请下一位参与者吗?
P07238:56
Operator
Yes. Charlie Chan, Morgan Stanley. Go ahead, please.
好的。摩根士丹利的 Charlie Chan。请讲。
P07339:02
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
Hi, gentlemen. Thanks for taking my question and also glad to hear very strong AI semi demand amid some recent stock market correction. My first question is really about your unprecedented capacity expansion strategy. As far as I know, one of your IDM customer is expanding capacity aggressively. There are some concern about this customer may insource more than outsource to you. First of all, I am not sure how you are going to deal with this sort of business opportunity. Secondly, I remember last time that C.C. mentioned about A14 could be a bigger node than N2. May I know whether that assume the big IDM company will outsource more CPU, like server CPU, at A14? Thank you.
嗨,各位。感谢回答我的问题,也很高兴在近期股市调整之际听到 AI 半导体需求非常强劲。我的第一个问题实际上是关于你们前所未有的产能扩张策略。据我所知,你们的一位 IDM 客户正在积极扩充产能。有人担心这位客户可能会更多地自己生产,而不是外包给你们。首先,我不确定你们将如何应对这类商业机会。其次,我记得上次 C.C. 提到 A14 可能是比 N2 更大的节点。请问这是否假设这家大型 IDM 公司会在 A14 上外包更多 CPU,比如服务器 CPU?谢谢。
P07439:59
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Charlie's first question is around IDM competitor. He wants to know very specifically, if we see this competitor moving to insource more. His question is then, our prior comment of A14 being a larger, bigger node than N2 has even been, does this include the server CPU from this IDM competitor?
好的。Charlie 的第一个问题是关于 IDM 竞争对手。他非常具体地想知道,我们是否看到这个竞争对手在转向更多自产。他的问题是,我们先前关于 A14 将是比 N2 更大节点的说法,是否包括了这个 IDM 竞争对手的服务器 CPU?
P07540:28
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, Charlie, we treat every customer fairly. Whether it is IDM or it is purely fabless, we treat them the same. But of course, we take into consideration of their internal capacity. We calculate our support, we calculate our capacity build-up according to our own judgment. Actually, in our A14, we have seen more and more customer actually higher than the 2 nanometers activities so far. We expect that the A14 will be a bigger node than our current N2 technologies.
Charlie,我们公平对待每一位客户。无论是 IDM 还是纯设计公司,我们都一视同仁。但当然,我们会考虑他们的内部产能。我们根据自己的判断来计算我们的支持和产能建设。实际上,在 A14 上,我们看到越来越多的客户,实际上高于目前 2 纳米的活动。我们预计 A14 将是比我们目前 N2 技术更大的节点。
P07641:24
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
I see. It doesn't need to consider this IDM will also outsource more. We can still have A14 to be a bigger node than N2. Is that the right understanding?
明白了。不需要考虑这家 IDM 也会更多外包,A14 仍然可以成为比 N2 更大的节点。这样理解对吗?
P07741:39
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Well, again, Charlie wants to know very specifically this customer's outsourcing plan, which you probably may need to ask them, but yeah.
嗯,Charlie 又一次非常具体地想知道这位客户的外包计划,这个你可能需要去问他们,不过好吧。
P07841:46
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, Charlie, as I said, to be frank with you, I don't comment on a specific customer, but let me guarantee you that we take everything into consideration. Okay?
Charlie,正如我所说,坦白讲,我不评论具体客户,但我向你保证,我们考虑了所有因素。可以吗?
P07942:01
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
Okay.
好的。
P08042:01
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Do you have a second question, Charlie?
好的。Charlie,你有第二个问题吗?
P08142:05
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
Thank you. Yes, I do. Thanks, Jeff. The second question is a kind of follow-up about your advanced packaging. From what we are seeing that the reticle size is getting much bigger. C.C., you said last time, or even two quarters ago, about your response, SoW, 3.5D, so lots of initiative is going on. My question is that, do you think those are kind of a purpose SoW 3.5D can really catch customers who have very rapid developments of their larger reticle size chip, like 14 reticle? Secondly, if some customer, they initially choose to use Intel's EMIB-T, and for some reason cannot get to sufficient demand, are you also support customers for the CoWoS version or capacity. Thank you.
谢谢。是的,有。谢谢 Jeff。第二个问题算是关于先进封装的追问。从我们看到的情况来看,光罩尺寸变得越来越大。C.C.,你上次甚至两个季度前谈到你们的应对——SoW、3.5D,所以有很多举措正在推进。我的问题是,你认为 SoW、3.5D 这些方案能否真正跟上那些大光罩尺寸芯片发展非常快的客户,比如 14 倍光罩?其次,如果有些客户最初选择使用英特尔的 EMIB-T,而由于某些原因无法满足需求,你们是否也会以 CoWoS 版本或产能支持客户?谢谢。
P08243:08
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
All right. Charlie's second question is focused on the advanced packaging. I guess, Charlie, if I understand your question, summarize it is, of course, customers are moving to larger and larger reticle size 14X. He wants to know TSMC's roadmap and solutions, and how competitive we can be against, I think he mentioned specifically our competitors, EMIB-T. How do we view our solution? Is it as competitive as our competitor? That's the first part of his question.
好的。Charlie 的第二个问题聚焦于先进封装。Charlie,如果我理解你的问题没错,概括起来就是:客户当然正在转向越来越大的光罩尺寸,如 14X。他想了解台积电的路线图和解决方案,以及我们相对于——我想他特别提到了我们的竞争对手 EMIB-T——有多大的竞争力。我们如何看待自己的方案?是否与竞争对手一样有竞争力?这是他问题的第一部分。
P08343:43
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
All right, Charlie. Actually, I still think that TSMC's advanced assembly, or they say packaging technology, are very, very competitive. But the most important thing is that we using that one to help us help our customer's product can be introduced in the market smoothly. That's our number one priority. We have to offer them the best technology with enough capacity. So far, let me share with you today's situation. We are in the real-world production of 5X reticle size. I don't believe that anybody can do that today except at TSMC, and the yield is excellent. So our customer are very satisfied with the result. We are working on the 9X reticle size and moving into the 14X reticle size. Of course, we are also working on the CoWoS, and to make sure that in the future we can offer a reasonable cost reduction.
好的,Charlie。实际上,我仍然认为台积电的先进组装,或者说封装技术,非常非常有竞争力。但最重要的是,我们用它来帮助客户的产品顺利推向市场。这是我们的首要任务。我们必须为他们提供最好的技术和充足的产能。到目前为止,我和你分享一下今天的情况。我们正在实际生产 5X 光罩尺寸。我不相信今天除了台积电还有谁能做到,而且良率非常好。所以我们的客户对结果非常满意。我们正在开发 9X 光罩尺寸,并向 14X 光罩尺寸迈进。当然,我们也在改进 CoWoS,确保未来能提供合理的成本下降。
P08445:03
But so far, the CoWoS is still the number one choice for our customer. As time goes by, yes, our competitor offer a very competitive solution. Still, I want to say that today's situation, we are the only one that makes sure that the advanced packaging is a 5X reticle size, and still, we are very competitive. I want to emphasize that.
但到目前为止,CoWoS 仍是我们客户的首选。随着时间推移,是的,我们的竞争对手提供了非常有竞争力的方案。但我仍想说,就今天的情况而言,我们是唯一一家能确保先进封装达到 5X 光罩尺寸的公司,而且我们仍然非常有竞争力。我要强调这一点。
P08545:40
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
And then Charlie's question, if the competitor cannot deliver on their solution, Charlie, I think you're saying, will you be willing to be something like a backup plan?
然后是 Charlie 的问题:如果竞争对手无法兑现其方案,Charlie,我想你是说,你们是否愿意成为类似备选方案的角色?
P08645:50
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
I try to avoid to answer it directly, but let me say that, yes, we will be. Number one priority I already indicate that TSMC's customer's product can be introduced into the market smoothly. That's a number one priority. Okay? And that give you enough hint.
我尽量避免直接回答,但我要说,是的,我们会。我已经说过,首要任务是让台积电客户的产品顺利推向市场。这是首要任务。可以吗?这已经给了你足够的提示。
P08746:14
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
Yes. Yes, indeed. So thanks for
是的。是的,确实。所以感谢
P08846:17
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay
好的
P08946:17
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
all the answers. I hope you don't give any food to others, including the advanced packaging. Thank you. It's 50.
所有的回答。希望你们不会把任何食物留给别人,包括先进封装。谢谢。是 50。
P09046:24
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay.
好的。
P09146:24
Charlie ChanAnalyst, Morgan Stanley
Thanks, everyone.
谢谢各位。
P09246:26
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Thank you. All right, operator, let's move on to the next participant, please.
谢谢。好的,主持人,请下一位参与者。
P09346:31
Operator
Next one, Sunny Lin, UBS. Go ahead, please.
下一位,瑞银的 Sunny Lin。请讲。
P09446:36
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
Good afternoon. Thank you very much for taking my question. My first question is to have a bit more color on how we should think about CapEx beyond 2026. Recall a few quarters ago, you mentioned, if you are doing your job well, then you may be able to drive CapEx to grow a bit less than top line. But now obviously the overall call activity may have further strengthened, and you are also willing to support your clients with more substantial expansion, and therefore wonder at this point, when you look at maybe in line with sales or even a bit faster, just like for 2026. Meanwhile, obviously the tool price is also increasing, given a very tight supply, and therefore, going to 2027, will the higher tool price also be a driver for higher CapEx as well? Thank you.
下午好。非常感谢回答我的问题。我的第一个问题是想多了解一下我们应该如何看待 2026 年之后的资本开支。记得几个季度前你们提到,如果工作做得好,就可能让资本开支的增速略低于营收。但现在显然整体活动可能进一步加强,你们也愿意以更大幅度的扩张来支持客户,所以想知道目前是否可能与销售额同步,甚至稍快一些,就像 2026 年那样。与此同时,由于供应非常紧张,设备价格显然也在上涨,那么进入 2027 年,设备价格上涨是否也会推高资本开支?谢谢。
P09547:32
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Higher, sorry. What was the last part of your question, Sunny? Higher tool price, higher what?
更高……抱歉。Sunny,你问题的最后一部分是什么?更高的设备价格,更高的什么?
P09647:39
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
Well, so yeah, when we think about 2027 CapEx, should we also consider tool price inflation to be a meaningful variable?
嗯,是的,当我们考虑 2027 年资本开支时,是否也应该把设备价格上涨视为一个重要变量?
P09747:49
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay
好的
P09847:49
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
For a lot higher CapEx compared with this year?
导致资本开支比今年高很多?
P09947:51
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Understood. Okay, sorry. Okay, thank you. So Sunny's first question is about our CapEx beyond 2026. Really, she's asking 2027, 2028, the next two years. With the strong, extremely robust demand that C.C. indicated, question is around our capital intensity the next two years. How do we see the capital intensity trending revenue growth versus a CapEx growth? Part one. And then also the impact of tool inflation on the CapEx outlook as well.
明白了。好的,抱歉。好的,谢谢。Sunny 的第一个问题是关于 2026 年之后的资本开支。她实际问的是 2027 年、2028 年这两年。在 C.C. 指出的强劲、极其旺盛的需求下,问题是未来两年的资本密集度。我们如何看待资本密集度的走势——营收增长与资本开支增长的对比?这是第一部分。然后是设备涨价对资本开支展望的影响。
P10048:27
Wendell HuangCFO
Okay, Sunny. This is Wendell. It's a bit too early to share the CapEx number beyond this year's. As we said in the prepared remarks, we have very strong conviction in the AI megatrend. Therefore, our CapEx from 2026 to 2028 is expected to be significantly higher than the past three years. This is a step up of our investment to support the customers' growth. We have no intention to leave any food on the table for others. The tool price inflation is real.
好的,Sunny。我是 Wendell。现在分享今年之后的资本开支数字还为时过早。正如我们在准备发言中所说,我们对 AI 大趋势有非常坚定的信心。因此,我们预计 2026 年至 2028 年的资本开支将显著高于过去三年。这是为支持客户增长而加大的投资。我们没有任何意愿把桌上的食物留给别人。设备涨价是真实存在的。
P10149:07
The tool price, material, labor cost, et cetera. However, the majority of the CapEx is always related to the long-term demand. That will be the composition going forward. Capital intensity-wise, as we always said, if do our job right, the increase in revenue will outpace the increase in CapEx, and that is still the case from what we are looking at.
设备价格、材料、人工成本等。不过,资本开支的大部分始终与长期需求相关。未来的构成也将如此。就资本密集度而言,正如我们一直所说,如果我们工作做得对,营收的增长将超过资本开支的增长,从我们目前看到的情况来看仍然如此。
P10249:39
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay.
好的。
P10349:39
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
Sunny, thank you very much. If I may have a very quick follow-up on the CapEx side. Earlier, Wendell, you raised the margin dilution for overseas to, I think, 3%-4% starting from 2027, given faster overseas expansion. For the U.S., you're still so far focused on Arizona. Does that imply for Arizona, the expansion for the second phase will happen very quickly, or you are actually accelerating the expansion for the third phase or even the other phases as well, as therefore the result for higher margin dilution for next year?
Sunny,非常感谢。如果可以的话,我想在资本开支方面做一个很简短的追问。Wendell,你刚才把海外厂的毛利率稀释上调到了——我想是从 2027 年开始的 3%-4%,原因是海外扩张加快。对于美国,你们目前仍集中在亚利桑那州。这是否意味着亚利桑那州第二期扩建会很快发生,或者你们实际上在加速第三期甚至其他期的扩建,从而导致明年的毛利率稀释更高?
P10450:18
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay, Sunny's question is about the puts and takes to next year's margin. She does note, as Wendell said in our prepared remarks, that the overseas fabs will widen a bit to 3%-4% in the next few years. She wonders what's driving that wider dilution. C.C. did say we are pulling in the schedule for the second fab for 3 nanometer. Her question is, are we also pulling in third fab? What's leading to this wider dilution? Maybe, yeah.
好的,Sunny 的问题是关于明年毛利率的有利与不利因素。她注意到,正如 Wendell 在准备发言中所说,未来几年海外厂的稀释将略微扩大到 3%-4%。她想知道是什么导致稀释扩大。C.C. 确实说过我们正在提前第二座 3 纳米厂的时间表。她的问题是,我们是否也在提前第三座厂?是什么导致了更大的稀释?大概是这样。
P10550:49
Wendell HuangCFO
Okay, Sunny.
好的,Sunny。
P10650:51
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
Thank you.
谢谢。
P10750:52
Wendell HuangCFO
As we mentioned, we are doing everything we can wherever we can to increase our capacity to meet the strong demand from the customers. We are also accelerating everywhere, including in the U.S. We did mention before that the latter part of the five-year period, the margin dilution from overseas fab will be 3%-4 percentage point, and that still remain the case. So it's 3%-4 percentage point in the second part of the five-year period.
正如我们提到的,我们正在尽一切可能在所有可能的地方扩充产能,以满足客户的强劲需求。我们在各地都在加速,包括在美国。我们之前确实说过,在 5 年期间的后半段,海外厂的毛利率稀释将达 3%-4 个百分点,这一点仍然不变。所以在 5 年期间的后半段是 3%-4 个百分点。
P10851:32
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
I see. Thank you very much for the clarification. My second question-
明白了。非常感谢你的澄清。我的第二个问题——
P10951:37
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
I am sorry.
抱歉。
P11051:38
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
I want to follow up on the point.
我想就这一点追问一下。
P11151:39
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
That was two questions, Sunny. That is already two questions. Sorry, but we probably just to accommodate as many as we can, we are going to move on.
Sunny,那已经是两个问题了。已经是两个问题了。抱歉,为了尽可能照顾更多人,我们要继续下一位了。
P11251:50
Sunny LinAnalyst, UBS
Sure.
好的。
P11351:50
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Thank you for your understanding. Operator, can we move to the next participant, please?
感谢理解。主持人,可以请下一位参与者吗?
P11451:57
Operator
Next one, Haas Liu, Bank of America. Go ahead, please.
下一位,美国银行的 Haas Liu。请讲。
P11552:01
Haas LiuAnalyst, Bank of America
Yes. Hi, C.C., Wendell, and Jeff. Thanks for taking my questions, and congrats on the great results. My first question would be on your view regarding the potential shift in AI demand mix. You mentioned in the prepared remarks that the AI accelerator chipset demand is proliferating into agentic AI demand, including CPUs and networking switches. We understand the overall AI investment is still pretty strong and even trending stronger across the board. Can we get more clarity that are you seeing your customers' demand shifting toward more efficient compute solutions, especially monetization gets more important? How should we think about the incremental opportunity for your manufacturing and packaging business? Thank you.
是的。嗨,C.C.、Wendell 和 Jeff。感谢回答我的问题,恭喜取得出色的业绩。我的第一个问题是关于你对 AI 需求结构可能变化的看法。你在准备发言中提到,AI 加速器芯片的需求正扩散到智能体 AI 需求,包括 CPU 和网络交换芯片。我们理解整体 AI 投资仍然相当强劲,甚至全面趋强。能否更清楚地说明,你是否看到客户需求正转向更高效的算力方案,尤其是在变现变得更重要的情况下?我们应该如何看待你们制造和封装业务的增量机会?谢谢。
P11652:40
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Hoss' first question is on the AI-related demand. His question is, are we seeing a shift in the AI-related demand more and more to CPU or networking switches and away from AI accelerators? Any type of comment, yeah.
Haas 的第一个问题是关于 AI 相关需求。他的问题是,我们是否看到 AI 相关需求越来越多地转向 CPU 或网络交换芯片,而非 AI 加速器?有任何评论吗。
P11752:59
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, all I can say is AI's demand is extremely robust. Whether it's come from accelerator or is more from the CPU side, it's not for me to make a comment. Although we did see the demand from agentic AI CPUs continue to increase. Yes, that is a trend today. Other than that, everything is very robust. I want to emphasize again, in our judgment, we consider all the parameter, and the demand actually is still far above our capability today to supply. We are working very hard to narrow the gap. That's all I can say.
我能说的只有,AI 的需求极其强劲。至于需求来自加速器还是更多来自 CPU,不应由我来评论。不过我们确实看到智能体 AI CPU 的需求持续增加。是的,这是当下的一个趋势。除此之外,一切都非常强劲。我要再次强调,在我们的判断中,我们考虑了所有参数,而需求实际上仍远高于我们今天的供应能力。我们正在非常努力地缩小这个缺口。我能说的就是这些。
P11854:04
Haas LiuAnalyst, Bank of America
Okay. Thank you. That is very clear. My second question is just regarding the yield learning curve going forward for your dual technology tracks strategy going forward. Historically, I think you have been ramping up the yield of a new node through producing the chipsets with smaller die size and simpler design to improve the learning curve of a new node. But for the future node families supporting both a conventional power delivery for the applications like mobile and consumer applications and Super Power Rail technology for HPC and AI chipsets, would operating two process architectures at the same time make the learning curve more challenging or increase the manufacturing complexity? How should we think about the implication to your gross margins from the yield and also cost control perspective? Thank you.
好的。谢谢。非常清楚。我的第二个问题是关于你们未来双技术路线策略的良率学习曲线。历史上,我认为你们一直是通过生产更小芯片尺寸、更简单设计的芯片来提升新节点的良率、改善学习曲线。但对于未来的节点家族,既要支持面向手机和消费类应用的传统供电方式,又要支持面向 HPC 和 AI 芯片的 Super Power Rail 技术,同时运行两种制程架构是否会让学习曲线更具挑战性,或增加制造复杂度?从良率和成本控制的角度,我们应该如何看待对你们毛利率的影响?谢谢。
P11954:53
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay, so Haas' second question is really about ramping a new node, the learning curve of yield and cost, and therefore the implication to gross margin, really, I think is what he is driving at. His question is that in the past a new node is mostly ramped with smaller die size and simpler design. But today we have both the smartphone and also with the AI and HPC applications coming in. Does that increase the complexity of the node process architecture, make the learning curve more challenging or difficult, and therefore the implication to the margin?
好的,Haas 的第二个问题实际上是关于新节点的爬坡、良率和成本的学习曲线,以及由此对毛利率的影响,我想这才是他真正想问的。他的问题是,过去新节点主要以更小的芯片尺寸和更简单的设计来爬坡。但今天智能手机和 AI、HPC 应用同时导入。这是否会增加节点制程架构的复杂度,让学习曲线更具挑战或更困难,进而影响利润率?
P12055:38
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, today's situation actually is a little bit different from previous years. Yes, we now have a very strong demand from smartphone and also AI HPC applications. So the smaller die size per se or the big die size in the accelerator, they happen at the same time. This is to TSMC's advantage, let me say that. Because we are good. We have been prepared for this kind of thing, and happy to working with us. So the learning curve, yes, but we are doing a reasonable job, and so the customer are very happy today.
实际上,今天的情况与以前略有不同。是的,我们现在同时有来自智能手机和 AI HPC 应用的强劲需求。所以小芯片尺寸本身,或者加速器中的大芯片尺寸,是同时发生的。我要说,这对台积电是有利的。因为我们做得好。我们已经为这种情况做好了准备,(客户)也很乐意与我们合作。所以学习曲线是存在的,但我们做得还不错,客户今天非常满意。
P12156:30
Haas LiuAnalyst, Bank of America
Okay. Thank you so much.
好的。非常感谢。
P12256:32
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Thank you. Operator, let's move on to the next participant, please.
好的。谢谢。主持人,请下一位参与者。
P12356:39
Arthur LaiAnalyst, Macquarie
On the line, Macquarie. Go ahead, please. Hi. I really appreciate management taking my question. I have a question on the power as a gating factor. I want to understand, have the power grid constraint led you reduce your customer forecast in the history? Also, could this tighter and tighter power grid surprise make your customer actually accelerating adoption of your Super Power Rail product for the better performance power? Thank you.
(注:此段开头应为主持人介绍)在线的是麦格理。请讲。嗨。非常感谢管理层回答我的问题。我的问题是关于电力作为制约因素。我想了解,电网限制在过去是否曾导致你们下调客户预测?另外,电网越来越紧张的意外情况,是否会让你们的客户为了更好的性能功耗而加速采用你们的 Super Power Rail 产品?谢谢。
P12457:23
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Arthur's first question is about the power supply or electricity supply. Is it a gating factor, and have we seen that lead to a reduction in customers' forecast? On the other side or on the other hand, with the tighter power electricity supply, have we seen more customers adoption of Super Power Rail technologies?
好的。Arthur 的第一个问题是关于电力或电力供应。它是否是制约因素,我们是否看到它导致客户下调预测?另一方面,在电力供应更加紧张的情况下,我们是否看到更多客户采用 Super Power Rail 技术?
P12557:52
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, let me update that. Definitely power supply situation is one of the consideration factor that we are looking into. That's why also we do one more step to double check whether the power supply situation in the U.S. And we have done all the study, and so far so good, let me say that. Whether this kind of situation change our customers' behavior and move more into the backside power rail? Answer is no. Whether you use the backside power, those kind of metallization scheme is based on your need for your product. Okay? Some of the accelerator might be using it, some of the product like mobile phones, they don't use it. So it depends on customer's product. Did I answer the question?
我来说一下。电力供应情况当然是我们正在考察的考量因素之一。这也是为什么我们更进一步去复核美国的电力供应情况。我们已经做了全部研究,我要说,到目前为止一切都好。这种情况是否会改变客户的行为,更多地转向背面供电?答案是否定的。是否使用背面供电这类金属化方案,取决于你产品的需要。可以吗?有些加速器可能会用它,有些产品如手机则不用。所以这取决于客户的产品。我回答了这个问题吗?
P12659:06
Arthur LaiAnalyst, Macquarie
Yeah.
是的。
P12759:07
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Okay.
好的。
P12859:08
Arthur LaiAnalyst, Macquarie
Yes. Thank you, C.C.
是的。谢谢 C.C.。
P12959:10
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Do you have a second question?
你有第二个问题吗?
P13059:15
Arthur LaiAnalyst, Macquarie
Yeah. Thanks. Yes. So just recall the previous discussion on the agentic AI demand on the CPU. So I wonder, according to our previous framework, demand forecast framework, the mid to high 50s growth including the CPU or not, and if we heard our clients increase the CPU forecast significantly, when is the next time we refresh our AI demand growth numbers?
是的。谢谢。是的。只是回顾一下之前关于智能体 AI 对 CPU 需求的讨论。我想知道,按照我们之前的框架——需求预测框架,50% 区间中高段的增长是否包括 CPU?如果我们听到客户大幅上调 CPU 预测,我们下一次更新 AI 需求增长数字是什么时候?
P13159:55
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. So Arthur's second question is on our, we already stated, but anyway, our AI accelerator definition. He wants to know with the emergence of agentic AI and CPU, does that AI accelerator definition include CPUs or not, and when we will provide inclusion for him.
好的。Arthur 的第二个问题是关于我们的——我们已经说过了,不过无妨——AI 加速器的定义。他想知道,随着智能体 AI 和 CPU 的兴起,AI 加速器的定义是否包括 CPU,以及我们何时会将其纳入。
P1321:00:21
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Let me answer the question. It is not included in our AI demands calculation. The reason is very simple, because we cannot identify which CPU user in the conventional server CPU or AI server CPU. Also, it depends on our customer's application and their own allocation. So, no. So far today, we stick to our initial very narrow definition on the AI's demand.
我来回答这个问题。它不包含在我们的 AI 需求计算中。原因很简单,因为我们无法区分哪些 CPU 用于传统服务器 CPU,哪些用于 AI 服务器 CPU。而且这取决于客户的应用和他们自己的分配。所以,不包括。到目前为止,我们仍然坚持最初对 AI 需求非常狭义的定义。
P1331:01:03
Arthur LaiAnalyst, Macquarie
Understand. If we have seen a very strong CPU-driven demand, when will we revise up the-
理解。如果我们看到非常强劲的 CPU 驱动的需求,我们何时会上调——
P1341:01:17
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Arthur, I think we already said very clearly it is not part of the AI accelerator definition. It is a narrow definition, but it is certainly part of our business. Okay?
Arthur,我想我们已经说得很清楚了,它不属于 AI 加速器的定义。这是一个狭义定义,但它当然是我们业务的一部分。可以吗?
P1351:01:28
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Yeah, sure.
是的,当然。
P1361:01:31
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Operator, in the interest of time, can we take question from the last participant on the line, please?
好的。主持人,考虑到时间关系,可以请线上最后一位参与者提问吗?
P1371:01:38
Operator
Yes. Sahith Singh, Stifel Financial. Go ahead, please.
好的。Stifel Financial 的 Sahith Singh(注:应为 Sahej Singh)。请讲。
P1381:01:45
Sahej SinghAnalyst, Stifel Financial
Hello. Thank you for the question. Into 2027, you have N3 turning accretive, and now that is crossed over. N2 is still in its diluted ramp, and the overseas dilution is widening. On the offset side, there have been reports of significant price increases across your mature and advanced nodes. Could you provide some color into perhaps some of that conversation? Where pricing does move, does it typically apply across the existing contracted book, or is it mainly being applied to incremental capacity above what customers have already committed to?
你好。感谢回答问题。进入 2027 年,N3 将转为提升毛利率,目前已跨过了这个点。N2 仍处于稀释毛利率的爬坡期,海外厂的稀释正在扩大。在抵消因素方面,有报道称你们成熟和先进节点全面大幅涨价。能否就相关沟通提供一些细节?当价格调整时,通常是适用于所有已签合同的订单,还是主要适用于客户已承诺量之外的增量产能?
P1391:02:25
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Yeah. Okay. The first question is, I guess you are asking about the potential puts and takes for next year, or you are asking specifically on pricing? Sorry. For pricing.
是的。好的。第一个问题是,我想你是在问明年潜在的有利和不利因素,还是特别问定价?抱歉。关于定价。
P1401:02:41
Sahej SinghAnalyst, Stifel Financial
Specifically on pricing.
特别是关于定价。
P1411:02:42
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. It is a very specific question that there are reports that we are increasing the price. He wants to know, does it apply across the existing contracted commitments from customers, or is it mainly for the incremental capacity?
好的。这是一个非常具体的问题,有报道称我们在涨价。他想知道,涨价是适用于客户现有的合同承诺,还是主要针对增量产能?
P1421:03:01
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, we have discussed this kind of thing before, that our pricing strategy is very strategic. It also depends on the market segment, depends on the location, and depends on the technology and something. Once we offer the flexibility of the physical location, like in the U.S., it will be a little bit different from the one we produce in Taiwan. No matter what, we try to get our value to be recognized, and we will give our shareholders the maximum value of our technologies.
我们以前讨论过这类事情,我们的定价策略是非常战略性的。它也取决于细分市场、取决于地点、取决于技术等。一旦我们提供地理位置上的灵活性,比如在美国,就会与我们在台湾生产的有所不同。无论如何,我们都会努力让我们的价值得到认可,我们会为股东带来我们技术的最大价值。
P1431:03:58
Sahej SinghAnalyst, Stifel Financial
Understood. Thank you. For the second question, something you said in your prepared remarks which stuck out to me was, we will not be leaving food on the table. Earlier, I think it was maybe one or two weeks ago, there was the announcement via GlobalFoundries that they would be providing silicon interposers to TSMC. I would love some color into how are you thinking through these strategic decisions in terms of procuring from some of the specialty foundries versus providing in-house. Thank you.
明白了。谢谢。第二个问题,你在准备发言中说的一句话让我印象深刻:我们不会把桌上的食物留给别人。此前,我想大约是一两周前,格芯(GlobalFoundries)宣布将向台积电提供硅中介层。我很想了解你们如何思考这些战略决策——从一些特色工艺代工厂采购,还是自己内部提供。谢谢。
P1441:04:36
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. His second question is, again, he notes that recently we had an announcement with GlobalFoundries on interposers. How do we view these partnerships, and what is our approach strategically?
好的。他的第二个问题是,他注意到我们最近与格芯就中介层发布了公告。我们如何看待这些合作,我们的战略思路是什么?
P1451:04:51
C.C. WeiChairman and CEO
Well, let me answer the question. We designed a deal with GlobalFoundries, and this is part of our overall strategy in the back-end supply. Actually, our number one priority is to help our customer to be successful in their market. We want them to be fully supported by all the supply, including the front end and back end. Definitely, we have a little bit shortage on the back end, and we would like to work with our so-called partner with GlobalFoundries so that both TSMC and GlobalFoundries can support TSMC's customer for their product to be introduced with enough support on the capacity.
我来回答这个问题。我们与格芯达成了一项协议,这是我们后段供应整体策略的一部分。实际上,我们的首要任务是帮助客户在其市场取得成功。我们希望他们得到所有供应的全力支持,包括前段和后段。我们在后段确实有一点短缺,我们希望与所谓的合作伙伴格芯合作,让台积电和格芯都能支持台积电的客户,使其产品在充足的产能支持下推出。
P1461:05:56
Sahej SinghAnalyst, Stifel Financial
Understood. Thank you very much for my questions.
明白了。非常感谢回答我的问题。
P1471:05:59
Jeff SuDirector of Investor Relations
Okay. Thank you for your questions. Thank you for all the participants. This does conclude our question and answer session. Before we conclude today's conference, please be advised that the replay of the conference will be accessible within 30 minutes from now. The transcript will become available 24 hours from now, and you can find both will be available through TSMC's website at www.tsmc.com. Again, thank you for joining us today. We hope everyone continues to stay well. Have a good autumn, and we hope you will join us again next quarter. Thank you and have a good day.
好的。感谢你的问题。感谢所有参与者。问答环节到此结束。在本次会议结束前,请注意,会议回放将在 30 分钟内提供。文字稿将在 24 小时后提供,两者均可通过台积电网站 www.tsmc.com 获取。再次感谢各位今天参加。祝大家安好。秋天愉快,希望下个季度再次见到各位。谢谢,祝大家有美好的一天。